Track Changes Bonus Episode: Don’t Ask Me Where I’m From Panel Featuring Author Jennifer de Leon, Agent, Faye Bender and Editor, Caitlyn Dlouhy
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Sarah Enni: Welcome to First Draft with me, Sarah Enni. Today's episode is a panel put together as part of A Mighty Blaze's YA Weekend, a celebration of authors whose debut novels came out during this strangest of debut seasons. This panel is one of the Track Changes events that I put together for that weekend. And it's a rare opportunity to hear from the entire team behind one book. Jennifer de Leon's debut novel Don't Ask Me Where I'm From, which came out on August 18th.
Jenn's name and the name of her book might sound familiar. I've been following her journey as a part of the Track Changes episodes that have been coming out in the First Draft feed. The book is finally out, and this is a rare opportunity to hear from her entire team, which is really wonderful. We hear from Jenn as well as her literary agent Faye Bender of The Book Group and her editor, Caitlyn Dlouhy, Vice President and Editorial Director of Caitlyn Dlouhy Books at Simon and Schuster.
There's so much insight and fascinating perspective in this panel about how agents and editors build relationships and work together, how the marketing team for the book pivoted in adjustment to a pandemic rollout, unexpected silver linings from a virtual launch, and advice for debut authors in 2020 and beyond. Everything that Jenn, Faye, Caitlyn and I talk about in the panel today can be found in the show notes.
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I want to say that this event was put together as part of A Mighty Blaze's suite of events this summer and A Mighty Blaze has been doing wonderful things for debut authors across age groups. So please check out A Mighty Blaze on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, everywhere.
They have great events going on all the time. If this panel is of interest to you, then you're probably gonna want to listen to all the rest of the Track Changes episodes that have been rolling out over the last few months. The most recent episode, which came out last week, is about marketing and publicity. And a lot of people have been responding to that.
If you're looking to get even more in-depth about the publishing industry, I've also created the Track Changes newsletter where every Thursday, sometimes Friday, I share more of the information that I gathered in researching for this project. You can sign up for a 30-day free trial of the newsletter and learn more about both Track Changes projects @firstdraftpod.com/TrackChanges.
Okay, now please sit back, relax, and enjoy this A Mighty Blaze YA Weekend Track Changes panel.
Sarah Enni: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Track Changes panel for A Mighty Blaze YA Weekend where we are discussing Don't Ask Me Where I'm From by Jennifer de Leon with her entire team. I'm so excited to talk to everyone and before we get into it, I'd love to just go around and have everyone introduce yourselves starting with Jenn.
Jennifer de Leon: Hi everyone. My name is Jenn de Leon and I'm just so thrilled to be here with this dream team. I'm an author and I will be publishing Don't Ask Me Where I'm From on August 18th in a few weeks. And I live in the Boston area.
Sarah Enni: Excellent. Okay. How about you Faye?
Faye Bender: My name is Faye Bender and I am Jenn's lucky literary agent. I am a partner with The Book Group in New York City though right now, not in New York City.
Sarah Enni: Okay. And how about you Caitlyn?
Caitlyn Dlouhy: Hi everyone. I'm Caitlyn Dlouhy and I am the unusually lucky editor of Jen de Leon and her debut novel. I'm Editorial Director of Caitlynn Dlouhy Books at Atheneum Books for Young Readers at Simon and Schuster Books for Young Readers. There's the big long piece. And I am working from home and will be for several more months. But usually I'm in New York City chained to a desk.
Sarah Enni: I love that everyone, Jenn and Caitlyn are representing for the book people right now. I love it. The shelves look good. So I'm gonna start out Jenn by, first of all, letting everyone know that they can hear a lot more about you and your story and how you came to book writing by listening to your episode of First Draft with Sarah Enni which is @FirstDraftPod.com. So everyone should listen to that.
And we've been following you through the Track Changes podcast series, as you have hunted for an agent, then found another agent, then wrote adult, than wrote YA, and all of your journey, which has been so useful for listeners. So everyone should check that out as well. But today we're gonna talk about this book's journey. So to just start with, can you please pitch Don't Ask Me Where I'm From?
Jennifer de Leon: I'd be thrilled to. So Don't Ask Me Where I'm From, I can't hold this book enough, but Don't Ask Me Where I'm From tells the story of Liliana Cruz who's a 15-year-old, Latinx teen in Jamaica Plain in Boston. And she takes a bus every morning to a fictional suburb and attends a predominantly white affluent school. And so she's trying to fit in, find her place in the world.
Meanwhile, her father's missing. And she's trying to figure out where he is and what happened to him. I also describe it as a story that is about a girl who is figuring out for the first time that her story is part of a larger story. So she's just kind of having that coming of age experience.
Sarah Enni: Excellent. That's a wonderful book. I am so excited for it to come out and for the whole world to be able to read it. I want to ask you about the agent seek process for this book. How did you hear about Faye Bender and what made you decide that she was someone you wanted to approach about representation?
Jennifer de Leon: Yes. So Faye Bender is like the celebrity of agents for, yes it's true, children's and YA. And I'd heard about her for years. And I was writing adult fiction for a while. And then once I dipped into YA the advice that I received was, "You need a YA agent. You need a real pro, someone with experience in this field." And so Francisco Stork (author of Illegal, Marcelo in the Real World, and more), another author and friend, he made the introduction over email. But I had also heard about Faye from author Natalie Anderson (author of City of Saints and Thieves and Let’s Go Swimming on Doomsday).
Natalie I met through the associates at the Boston Public Library because we both had the same Writer in Residency there. And so Faye's name popped up more and more. And I just thought, "Dream agent. I'm just gonna go right to the top." And I was thrilled that she said yes.
Sarah Enni: And Faye, I'd love to hear your perspective. What do you remember about the first time that you interacted with Jenn or heard about her book? And what made Jenn's book stand out to you?
Faye Bender: I remember Francisco Stork, who is an author I also represent, telling me about Jenn and about the book and about how moving he found it and how it felt like such a true representation of a story that's not given enough space. And as somebody who went to a college in one of the "W" towns that you talk about in the book, it really, in reading it, there was just such an incredible and immediate and genuine connection to Liliana and to her story.
And then I think the first time we talked, Jenn, we spoke for a long time. I mean, I think we talked for a couple of hours. And there was just that, you know, that click that happens when there's that simpatico of personality and vision and hope. And so it just, from the moment I heard about it, it was something that felt right.
Sarah Enni: And this, just from a process standpoint, I'd like to hear you two talk about the process of getting the book ready to go on submission. What, if any, work was done editorially? And Faye, what do you look for as, one of those impossible things, when is it done? But what do you hope to get a book to, in order to be able to then go to editors?
Faye Bender: Yeah, I think that, I mean Caitlyn can tell us maybe more about this later, but the editors have so much work on their plates, and if there's a reason to say no, often they have to take that. And so for me, I think a big part of my job is doing all of the requisite work with the author to get the book into the best possible polish. And so Jenn and I did some back and forth. And for me, I'm not an editor and I've never been on the editorial side of things, but I'm a pretty careful reader. And I think I have a good gut for what's working and what doesn't.
And so it was more sort of a thematic, big picture, "Let's look at these character's motivations, and what's kind of landing and what's not." So we did some back and forth, but the book really was in such good shape when I first saw it. So, in my memory at least because this was a while ago, there wasn't that much. Jenn, you might remember it being much more painful, but I don't remember there being a ton of back and forth.
Jennifer de Leon: No, there really wasn't. I remember it was like add a scene with Liliana and her father. And because this was my first time writing YA I think I was a little bit at times on the line of middle-grade and YA. So Faye was really good about kind of steering me like, "Stay in your YA lane. Stay in your lane." Kind of thing. And then the timing, I remember it was right before Thanksgiving which wasn't the best time to go out with a project, right? And I thought, "I can't wait! Oh my god, you're gonna make me wait like six more weeks until January." But I think this whole process is just kind of being patient. So much is out of your control.
Sarah Enni: Yes. I agree with you on that. I would love to hear Faye, as an agent, when you have a book like this and you obviously want to give it its best shot and I don't want to answer the question for you, but I think when you send out a book, that's kind of it, you get one shot with an editor. So how do you think about who would be best for a project and what made you think of Caitlyn for this book?
Faye Bender: So that's such an important part of this whole machinery of getting to publication. Is it's just such a personal business. It's so much based on the conversations over many, many years that I've had with all of these different editors about everything ranging from where they grew up to where they went to college, to whether they have kids, if their kids are in college, if they have brothers and sisters, where they go on vacations.
I mean, when you look on a piecemeal, it all seems sort of extraneous and separate from the business of publishing, but it really does come into play in such an important way when books are ready for submission. Because I think any good agent has a really good picture of which editors are looking for which kinds of books and who would do best in publishing those.
So for me the best barometer when I'm reading something for the first time, the thing that sort of tells me that I might be a good agent for a book is when names start to come to mind, editor's name starts to come to mind, as I'm reading. And that is an indication to me that I might have something to offer to the process. And so Caitlyn's name was one that came to mind on the very first read.
So I think Caitlyn has impeccable taste and a curated list and an incredible amount of input and control over her imprint that has the muscle of Simon and Schuster behind her. So it's like the dream of being able to work with someone who feels like an independent boutique publisher, but has all of the weight behind her.
Sarah Enni: Yeah. Caitlyn I'd love to hear from you and bring you into this conversation. Do you remember when you first heard from Faye about this project? And what were your first impressions of Don't Ask Me?
Caitlyn Dlouhy: So Faye had written to me to see if I would be interested and I don't know if you know this, but Faye crafts such an enticing letter to coax your interest to begin with, but I barely needed that because once you started describing what the story was about, my little hands were doing this "Please, please!" [Laughs] Am I getting this right, Faye? There was another editor also interested?
Faye Bender: At Simon and Schuster. And then there were others as well.
Caitlyn Dlouhy: The minute I heard that, I was having tiny little heart failures, because I thought, "Oh no, what if that person gets the book?" Never mind the rest of the world. I'm just focusing on the first person who might get in the way. Because I started reading this, and I usually know within 20 to 25 pages if I'm falling in love with a manuscript, and then the rest of my read is less about how great it is and it's much more about, "Don't mess this up, just don't mess this up. Cause I'm loving this, don't mess anything up."
And that's where I ended up by the end, Jenn did not mess anything up. And I went shimmering into my publisher saying, "Oh, we have to publish Jenn de Leon and her new novel, her first novel." And then there were the ins-and-outs of the publishing world at Simon and Schuster. And then whatever went on beyond me with Faye and Jenn and other publishers. But I was just thrilled to read it and get to the end and know that I was just as thrilled and just was hoping, hoping, hoping that it would land here.
Sarah Enni: Yes, that's so exciting. And I do want to ask about, since it was a competitive process, Caitlin when you are in a situation like that, you are in a position of approaching the author and wanting to sell yourself as a home for that book and that project. How do you, as an editor, approach that? Of talking to an author and putting together not just a proposed deal for them, but also a connection with them personally about being a home for their book.
Caitlyn Dlouhy: I love asking where stories come from, like what the original impetus of the story was. I love getting down to those lower layers. And then I also love talking about where I can see the story going further beyond what it already is. Because I'm looking at it with such fresh eyes, that I sometimes will see something that, you know, Jenn and Faye have read it many times and they might not see. And I'll put that out there and gaging the reaction to that helps me know whether, for instance, Jenn is on the same wavelengths or if we're not connecting, it's really easy to tell that way.
And it's not done as a test, but more that through her words, I'm prompted with visions of what it can be, but I never want it to be my vision I want it to be her vision. So I want my visions to parallel hers and just amplify the strength of the novel. And then I see that reaction and that's sort of how I know, which is probably very different from how Jenn would come at it or Faye.
Sarah Enni: Yeah, that's such a good point about having fresh eyes at that part of the process. I think we all, especially as writers, we're like wandering the forest and what are trees, at that point? Jenn what was it about Caitlyn's approach or talking to her? What made her stand out as a potential editor?
Jennifer de Leon: I remember the very first conversation we had, and I remember feeling excited like somebody was here who, like you were saying earlier Caitlyn, believed in the story, but also saw potential for what it could be. And when I gave that final draft to Faye and then we worked on it, and then we sent that draft, that was the last iteration I had ever worked on. So it's always like the last mile and then you have an editor, a coach, somebody coming in who's like, "I think you can run another mile."
It's like, "What? How can I do that?" And then they're like, "Oh, it's just like this and this and this. And if you break it up this way and you walk a little, then you sprint, then you run." Like, "Ta-da!" And so I just, I don't know. I love how Caitlyn made it feel so plausible. And I think as a writer, I'm hard on myself. Or I think like, "I don't know if I can do it. Oh my god!"
And so I was energized by our conversation. And truthfully, I just love how she is willing to go there with topics, with social justice, with race, with class. And I felt like, "This is my debut novel. I don't want to ever feel like I'm holding back or playing it safe." It's like your only chance to have your first swing.
And I felt like Caitlyn was with me that whole way. And she wasn't going to hold me back, she was gonna cheer and push and like say, "Keep going, you got this." And she's super smart [chuckles]. It's like, "Hello?"
Caitlyn Dlouhy: Where are my daughters to hear this?
Jennifer de Leon: I know, right? No, I know. But yeah, on that level of just having ideas like, "What about this?" Or, "You know, you have this in there, I was thinking this." Seeing those connections and being able to see these seeds and then have visions for them, like fully sprouted. I mean, it's just, it's a talent. And it's also your love of voice. I felt like I was in a good home too, because Caitlin wasn't, I guess, turned off by the voice. If anything, she was like, "Yeah, turn it up, turn up the dial." So that part felt good too.
Faye Bender: Sorry, I just want to interject and say, I think that there is this kind of preconceived notion that editors are too busy to edit. Nobody edits anymore. And you know, there are instances in which that's true, but I think that Caitlyn breaks any assumption that that could possibly be true because the degree to which she thinks about every aspect of a book and can hold the thread from something that happens on page six, to something that happens on page 320 is remarkable. It's really impressive.
Jennifer de Leon: Big time.
Sarah Enni: I did want to ask Jenn, I think over the course of Track Changes, I think at some point you told me that Caitlyn also wrote a personal letter to you, at this stage, in talking about what she saw for the book. Do you guys mind talking about that?
Jennifer de Leon: Sure. I mean, I remember it was just a personal note and it was at a part of the process that was pivotal. And like you said, editors are busy. New York editors are even busier and it just felt like that personal touch. And I joke about it, but we did bond over our love for Starbucks. And I remember that Caitlyn, she wrote the letter that was so touching and I have it on my laptop.
But then the day that it was official that we would be working together, Caitlyn left a voicemail on my phone and something in the voicemail was like, "You have earned your Starbucks, you can go get two if you want!" You know? And I just felt like it was a moment of celebration. A lot of this work is serious and we're professionals, but it's also, you gotta keep the joy in it. So I felt like, I dunno, I like those personal touches.
Sarah Enni: Yeah. I love that. I did want to ask about the, you guys kind of teed us up for the editorial process. So Caitlyn, after the deal was signed and you could fully move into editing the book, how did you approach that and what did you think the book needed? Or how do you kind of dive into the editing process with your clients generally? And with Jenn specifically?
Caitlyn Dlouhy: Generally I will read a manuscript the first time without my editing hat on just to take it all in. And the next read the editing hat is on, and always in green. I don't know why. I think Charlotte Zolotow, back in the day, wrote with a green pen when she was publishing all those seminal picture books. But anyway, green just always seems less threatening when you scribble all over something, instead of red. And then black can be a little hard to find with black type. And blue seems a little ordinary, so I go with green.
Anyway, but then I start scribbling all over the manuscript and I write notes everywhere. And I have a paper beside me where I write in teeny, teeny, tiny letters, a million ideas. Teeny tiny so I don't get myself overwhelmed with 17 pages of ideas. And then I put together an editorial letter. And what I'm always, always trying to do is watch the finest parts of an author's book, the finest writing, the most beautifully crafted scenes, the best pieces of dialogue, the strongest movement forward, and then I know what everything can become because I know their top strengths.
And then really I'm just, as Jenn came up with that great analogy, "If you can do one more mile." For me it's, "You can get everything to that same exact level, because you've done this. You are beyond capable of getting everything just as strong." And most of the time it's, again, an author has been with it, and with their manuscript, for so long that they become tunnel vision. It's hard to step back unless you have a year, you know, of not being near it. And I'm basically liking to think I'm a little bit in their head doing what they would do if they had the year to step back and look at it again. If that at all makes sense.
Jennifer de Leon: Yeah. That's a great way to look at it.
Sarah Enni: And it's fascinating to think of the editor as sort of giving the gift of time or perspective. I think that's a really fascinating way to think about it. What was the editing process like for you, Jenn?
Jennifer de Leon: A lot of sweating [chuckles], speaking of running. Yeah. I mean, I don't even know how to sum this up. I feel like I got three Emma phase in the process of editing this book because I think, I hope, that I write differently. I know I read differently. I have definitely [pauses], it's just a different way of seeing, you know? I think that that's been a real gift of this. The tangible book is awesome, I'm so happy and thrilled, but I do feel like I have new lenses.
Like even when I'm working on this next project, I'm already seeing the green pen, or imagining Caitlyn picking up the green pen and I'm like, "No, no, no! Give an action instead of telling here." Something like that, where I'm like hearing her in my voice. Because at first the edits, I think you gave like a 20 page, single-spaced editorial letter to me. And I couldn't believe it. I'm like, "Wow, she really thinks about my book and has a lot to say about it." And I was scared. I was like, "I don't know if I can do this." But it was the kind of thing where I was like, "You have to do it." Like, "You have to figure it out." Like giving birth or something, there's only one way out of this.
And I was like, "Okay, I have the contract. People are onboard. I got to deliver." And then after that we had different iterations and I moved at one point, I had a baby, I feel like we had a long journey with this book. And it was that feeling of like, "Okay, I'm done." And it's like, "Nope! No, you're not." And it's like, "Okay, now I'm really done." It's like, "Nope! No, you're not." And every time there was more to mine, you know? And there was more to finesse, and there was more to discover.
And I don't know, maybe another editor would have clicked print earlier. But it wouldn't be the book that it is today. You know what I mean? It's like, at the moment, I was kind of like, "Oh my God, I can't believe this. I don't know if I can do it." But it's that feeling after you're done running and sweating and you're just like, "Thank god someone pushed me." You know?
And so I say that now, but when those UPS packages showed up... because everything is by paper. Caitlyn edits on paper with the pen and I would get these stacks of manuscripts that I have. I have all of them in my closet, you know? And it's like, I would come up the driveway and I'd see like the UPS package and like, "Oh, no!"
[Everyone laughs]
Jennifer de Leon: To this day I think I have like trauma seeing those yellow packages. But there's like, again, it's a gift. Like that's your time and expertise and heart going into shaping a story that I made up. Like when you zoom out and think about that, that's kind of extraordinary.
Sarah Enni: Yeah. Yeah. And Caitlyn every author is a little bit different, every book is a little bit different. I'm interested in how, you know, we're talking to Faye about being done when the book is finished. Of course we could work on something forever, but what do you see as the finish line? And how do you help authors continue, or find that balance between when there's still work to be done or are they burned out? How do you kind of balance that?
Caitlyn Dlouhy: You started the question off very aptly. It's so different depending on who you're working with. I often will send off an editorial letter and want to go hide under a bed because I know that someone is throwing darts at me, and at the editorial letter. And I just always hope that my authors know that all I want is for their book to be their very best.
And each revision, I'm very aware of what they've changed, how they've improved things. And that helps me see what that's then knocked a kilter later on. And so then there's something more to adjust. And then Jenn, for instance, might open up something that leads you to a thought that, "Oh my gosh! Why not have the aunt and the uncle bring presents from home and have there be things already from the home country in the apartment?" Which Jenn may well have had that there originally, but she'll add things that then blossom to make something else even greater, if we swing back again.
And my hope is always to help encourage everyone to get to the finish line, is to know that I am always there. I am always there, you can call me, we can talk things over on the phone, but I am on this journey as well. And all I want, all I want is for your book to be the best you can do. And I hope that that's the encouragement because it is very easy to say, "Okay, we've been working on this long enough. Good enough." But good enough is not good enough for kids.
Sarah Enni: Right. I love that. I did want to ask, Faye and Caitlyn, have you two work together on a project before?
Faye Bender: Do you know the great answer to this? We had not worked on a project together before but since, at Jenn's introduction, we have another author together, the fabulous Desmond Hall. And he is somebody I met through Jenn, she kindly referred him to me. And Caitlyn bought his book. So it's a very nice sort of small world answer.
Jennifer de Leon: Yeah, Des, I'm so excited for his book You're Corner Dark, next year comes out. We always joke that we have the same literary parents. We're like literary siblings, brother and sister.
Caitlyn Dlouhy: Hi, honey!
Faye Bender: [Chuckles] Exactly. You guys can talk about mom and dad. We're so annoying.
Jennifer de Leon: No, no way.
Sarah Enni: That's so fun and that's very cool that this is the first time that you two have been able to collaborate. I did want to, you know, while we have an agent and editor here, I'd love to hear both of your perspective on how agents and editors work together to bring a book... I keep wanting to say, "Bring a book to fruition." That's not really the right metaphor, but you know what I'm saying? How do you guys work together for the best of a book? And what are like the keys to communication or teamwork in this relationship?
Faye Bender: I'll take it first, maybe, if that's okay? I think that the keys to success all lie in really open and honest communication. And I think that's true really at every aspect of anyone's life. And it's something that's incredibly important to me in my professional life. And I think in tandem with that preconceived notion of the overworked editor who can't edit, is the idea of the kind of shark agent who is only looking forward and just getting the next kill and the next sale and whatever that is. And I don't know if those people exist, but I'm definitely not one of them.
And so for me, the collaboration is really important and staying involved and being a part of talking about the cover art, and the blurbs, and the publicity, and the marketing, and the pub date and really to be a part of things. I think there's a real brain trust that is built and that just benefits everybody, and the book, to have more experience and more thought going into something. And Caitlyn has been great in that, and really receptive and open and terrific to work with. So I guess that would be my take on that.
Caitlyn Dlouhy: I would flip it right back, everything you said and add to that, that the open communication is vital. And for me to feel when something is a little sticky, a little uncomfortable, for instance, when we had to move the pub date. I didn't get in touch with you with dread in my heart. I knew you would understand the situation, or at least give careful thought to the situation. And we could talk it through and discuss whether that was an ideal thing to do or not.
And that's not always the circumstance. Sometimes there is a more defensive reaction or a different type of reaction, but I always feel if there's anything that needs sorting out, I'll pop you an email and you'll respond immediately. And we always have a discussion that is even more elevated than I would have hoped for, which is fabulous.
Sarah Enni: Yeah. That's so great. And communication is, you know, I did specifically want to keep asking about it just because it's sort of the thing that authors always ask about, and there's no really one right way, but it's useful to just hear how other people are communicating within their team and stuff like that. I do want to ask about, after the editing process kind of wraps up Caitlyn, how does an editor continue to be a champion in their publishing house for a book as it leads to publication day?
Caitlyn Dlouhy: Ah, well, I don't think that we, at least at S&S, I don't think that there's room for me to stop, even if I wanted to. Because we have so many meetings to talk about a book up until the book is actually launched in the bookstores. We have a number of different positioning meetings. We have sales and marketing meetings where periodically, even a year in advance, we're already starting to plan what should happen for a book. I get to go on and on about it at launch meetings, and sales conference meetings, which is one of my favorite things to do.
To be able to have a time where I can talk about the content of the book, on top of how that content leads to promotional opportunities that might not exist if someone didn't really know exactly what was going on in the book. And it just continues and continues and continues. And Jenn has Melana as her fabulous publicist and to hear Melana's ideas just have me going, "Oh my gosh, you have to call Jenn right now and tell her about this!" It's just continual, it's continual.
Sarah Enni: And throughout this it's been a wild ride to follow Jenn's journey, cause Jenn and I connected and started talking in like the last week of February, I think Jenn, for Track Changes? Back when May 5th was the day. And then, of course, things have changed and we're all now doing zoom, et cetera, et cetera. I would love to hear from each of you about what it's been like to stay on top of this unusual publication, and keep optimistic and adjust plans. It's required a lot, I think, logistically and emotionally from everybody, but you all have different roles in that.
So I'd love to hear, Caitlyn, if we could start with you since it began with S&S having to think about how to change. How did you think about that? And how did you navigate communicating where you were going with it?
Caitlyn Dlouhy: I can take credit from very little in that department because really it was our publicity and marketing and publishing team that immediately pivoted once we realized that things weren't getting better quickly. One of the very first things we were talking about was moving Jenn's novel out because we didn't want to publish into a void and we wanted to have time to figure out how we can reach the audience who most needs the book? How we can reach the reviewers? How we can reach the librarians and the teachers, as well as the bookstores? How can we do that best?
And we needed time to figure that out because we'd never done it before. And especially the folks who work in the more digital side of things. They just came up with things so quickly, I was dazzled. Ways of reaching audiences that just literally didn't exist five months ago. But really, I just watched in awe of other people's brains working.
Sarah Enni: And how did you think about Jenn in those meetings, hearing about those things, as the representative of the author in the room and the person who was gonna communicate to that team, how have you been keeping spirits up or continuing to be that coach, as Jenn was saying earlier.
Caitlyn Dlouhy: Spirits up in-house or for Jenn?
Sarah Enni: Both honestly.
Caitlyn Dlouhy: Well, in-house there wasn't any need to keep spirits up regarding Jenn's novel Don't Ask Me, because spirits are already high for this novel. So that made my job very easy. And just touching base with publicity a lot, especially now more and more, as more and more things are coming up. Making sure there was a cover reveal, all of the special moments that can happen before a book comes out, before you start getting the reviews.
And then for Jenn, it would be the second a review comes in, the second some notification about the book, some lovely moment occurs, I want to get that information to her immediately. "Look! The rumblings are starting. The rumblings are starting."
Sarah Enni: And we'll go backwards in the process. Faye, how have you, I mean, you have many clients and many logistical... I can't even imagine what your Google calendar looks like. How have you kept things straight? And what's it been like on your end of things?
Faye Bender: I think what agents can offer that is special in this time, is a sort of eagle-eye perspective. That we do have multiple authors who are being published by different houses, and different editors, and different categories and genres. And within that, I have nine terrific colleagues who have their own things happening. And so really, as soon as all of this hit and we were quarantined, there was an effort among the members of The Book Group to increase our communication with each other.
We always have had a weekly meeting, but we started having three times a week, just to talk about this, and to figure out, "This is working and this didn't." Or, "I thought this was gonna be great, but it was not at all." Just the things that we could glean from one anothers experiences while this was happening. And so I think that was the real value add that an agent can offer in this time, is just a perspective from higher up, you know what I mean?
Sarah Enni: Faye, this is a bit of an abstract question maybe, and I keep saying keep spirits up. I'm really, I guess, asking about contextualizing, right? Like understanding the situation and trying to look at the best possible outcomes and triage from there where that needs to happen. I'm wondering for you, you're working with Jenn for the long-term is the goal, right? So how much are you worried about these moments day-to-day and how much are you kind of trying to contextualize like, "This is just a moment in a long career?"
Faye Bender: I do think that's true. I think this is a moment in a long career. I think it's a really special moment in a long career because it's Jenn's debut. And because she has this incredible editor and publisher in her corner. And because her book, I think, speaks very directly to a lot of what's happening right now, that is so momentous. The issues of social justice in the book I think are really elevated and important and clear. And kids need that in fiction as much as they need it in the horrible news headlines.
So I do think this is a moment and will not be the length and breadth of what your career is, Jenn. But I think this is a really seminal and special moment in your career. And I hope that it has and can and will continue to feel like that. And I think you do have a team behind you in all corners that just want desperately for the same thing to happen. We all want this to be the book that everybody reads and loves and sees themselves in, in some way, and enables them to find their voice.
Sarah Enni: Yay. Jenn, you and I have been touching base over the last few months, and I know it's been kind of emotional just to see things change. Anytime an experience you've been dreaming of changes under your feet it's a little bit of a dance. But how have you been navigating it and how are you feeling now that August 18th is coming up?
Jennifer de Leon: I'm so excited. I think you can tell. It's hard to put into words. It's my life dream. It's my life dream. And it's around the corner, it's happening. And the thing is, with this process, the more I think about it, you know, there's so much emphasis on like pub day, pub day. Like that is the day. Almost like a wedding, I guess. Right?
But the reality is it's exciting when you make the book deal, when you meet your agent, the first time I met Caitlyn, the first time I saw the cover, I'm like, "What?!" I remember exactly where I was. So there's all these moments. Yeah. Elena Garnu did a gorgeous job on that cover. And same thing, the other day, a box of the hard covers was mailed to my home and opening that with my family. You know?
So it's like, these moments are all as special. And the pub day, the event, I mean, I was planning it like a wedding. I won't lie. I had like cake and champagne and I was like, "We'll do the after-party. And then the after-after-party." I mean, I was like, "This is gonna be big." And then boom, you know, corona. Everything changed. I think I've seen humanity at its best and worst the last few months, right? And it's kind of like, we adapt, we're resilient. Even with my own kids, you see how they're resilient, and suddenly things are normalized like remote learning and zooming with friends. And so I'll have a virtual launch, and it'll be special in its own way.
And what pained me was like, "Oh, I'm not gonna be able to let people know about the book in the same way." Like, "I can't go to the library conference" or, "I can't go to BookCon." People who would have been there, now they won't know about the book. And it felt like a huge letdown. But the irony is that through all this virtual stuff, I mean, there are so many connections being made that I just know might not have been made had I not been sort of propelled into this virtual space. Because it's not my general, like, I don't lean into it generally, but now I am.
Sarah Enni: Yeah. It's been amazing. You know, 200 people can show up to a book event online, but you can't squeeze that many people into a bookstore, or, you shouldn't. So it's been kind of a really wonderful silver lining to that. We have to wrap up the conversation, but I like to wrap up with advice on my podcast. So I'll do a little bit of that here.
And since A Mighty Blaze is really focused on debut books and new and aspiring writers, I'd love to hear from each of you in your role in the industry, if you have advice or words of wisdom for people who are just getting started or about to have their debut experience come out. And Jenn, why don't we start with you?
Jennifer de Leon: Oh man. I mean, so much advice. I think you've asked me this before, and I hold true to it, which is do the thing, the thing that you are waiting on. Maybe it's starting an MFA program. Maybe it's writing the book that you're like, "No, I can't write about that." Or maybe it's querying the dream agent. Right? It's all these things I think like, "Do it! Do the thing."
Because it's so worth it. I think a lot of people, a lot of aspiring writers too, feel like you have to get to a quote unquote certain level, or you have to have a certain number of stories published in literary magazines before you can do this. You know, it's like, we make all these rules for ourselves. Like, "Once I do this, then I can do that." And like Caitlyn was saying earlier, the kids need stories, important stories, valuable stories now more than ever. And it's just, there's no more time to wait. So just do it.
Sarah Enni: Yeah. I love that. Faye, how about you?
Faye Bender: I think that your last question about is this sort of a moment in a long career? I think that there are so many things that are happening right now because of these circumstances that we're all thrust into, that present really exciting opportunity. I mean, there's a huge number of virtual events that are happening all the time. It requires traveling to your kitchen island or your couch or your bed.
And you can really see so much that otherwise, maybe that author wouldn't be coming to your city, or it's too long of a drive for you to get there. You can't get childcare, or whatever it is. So I guess my advice, in this moment, which is such a unique moment, would be to really try to take advantage of what's happening, and what's out there. And make connections and watch authors who you admire, talk about their work and try on being a part of the community.
Sarah Enni: Yeah. I love that. You can all go on Instagram and watch Jason Reynolds talk to actual kids every day, which is like one of my favorite things (whose many books include All American Boys (cowritten with Brendan Kiely [listen to his First Draft interview here]), As Brave as You, For Every One, the Track series, Look Both Ways, Stamped: Racism, Anti-Racism, and You and Long Way Down, which received a Newbery Honor, a Printz Honor, and a Coretta Scott King Honor. Listen to his First Draft interviews here and here).
And Caitlyn, how about you? Advice for people who are just getting started or maybe getting the bravery to start their writing career?
Caitlyn Dlouhy: I almost always say the same thing. And that is to trust your own voice and work that into your characters. Because the voice is the one piece of the whole project, the whole manuscript, that nobody else can replicate. That is the one piece that can only come from you. An editor cannot create the voice. And so if you focus on the voice, you're going to have your character. And if you have your character, you're gonna have situations because the voice is so strong that this character is gonna start doing something. But trust your inside voice for your character and follow that.
90% of everything I ever take on is because of the voice. And there can be massive flaws, but if I'm in love with that voice, which means usually I'm now in love with that character, there's a lot that can be done to take care of the rest, but the voice is the one thing that is solely uniquely yours.
Sarah Enni: Oh, I love that. That's fantastic. This has been so special. I am so grateful to all three of you for your time. I know you're so busy, but thank you for sharing your wisdom. And, oh my gosh Don't Ask Me Where I'm From such an incredible book. I'm so thrilled for it to come out. Everybody go to the bookshop.org link and pre-order it right now. And thank you ladies again so much.
Jennifer de Leon: Thank you, Sarah.
Faye Bender: Thank you, Sarah.
Caitlyn Dlouhy: It was lovely to see you Jenn and Faye!
Jennifer de Leon: You too, here's a virtual hug!
Faye Bender: Germ-free kisses!
Thank you so much to Jenn, Faye, and Caitlyn. Check out the show notes of this episode on FirstDraftPod.com for links to all of their social media, as well as where you can buy Don't Ask Me Where I'm From. Or check out the First Draft Twitter and Instagram pages, I'm @FirstDraftPod everywhere. You can also follow me, Sarah Enni @SarahEnni on social media, everywhere too [Twitter and Instagram].
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Hayley Hershman produces First Draft and today's episode was produced and sound designed by Callie Wright. The theme music is by Dan Bailey and the logo was designed by Collin Keith. Thanks also to transcriptionist-at-large Julie Anderson. And, as ever, thanks to you, pillars of the book production community for listening.