Track Changes: Selling Your Book (Part 2)

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Track Changes: Selling Your Book (Part 2)

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In the second look at how books get sold, former Little, Brown and Delacorte senior editor Kate Sullivan, Senior Content Development Manager for New Leaf Literary & Media, walks us through all the steps an editor takes between receiving an agent’s pitch and signing a deal memo to acquire a book. Acquisitions meetings, P&L statements, and TI sheets, oh my!

We reconnect with Jennifer de Leon, debut author of young adult novel Don’t Ask Me Where I’m From, out on August 4. (Hear her First Draft interview here.)

This episode of Track Changes is brought to you by Writing in Place the latest podcast project brought to you by bestselling and Prince award winning novelist, Nina LaCour.

You’re listening to Track Changes for practical advice on the publishing industry. But I would advise taking care to protect and nurture your creative side. Nina, who’s podcast Keeping a Notebook, is already a wonderful source of creative inspiration, has developed a new series within a series called Writing in Place. In each episode, Nina shares a story, a photo, and a writing prompt to give you the space to stay creative and connected, even in deeply uncertain times. 

Find Writing in Place in the Keeping a Notebook podcast feed and find more information, and sign up for her newsletter @NinaLaCour.com.

Sarah Enni:  2018 feels like a lifetime ago. But for Jennifer de Leon that was the year her debut book Don’t Ask Me Where I’m From, went on submission. And she remembers it like it was yesterday. 

Jennifer de Leon: I think it was like January 2nd or 3rd, she said, “We’re going out.” Because we specifically waited. The book was ready to go out early November, but she said, “No one’s gonna be reading between Thanksgiving and New Year’s. It’s better to wait.” And it was excruciating to wait, but I’m really glad we did.

Sarah Enni:  The she Jen is referring to there, is her agent, Faye Bender, partner and founder at The Book Group. And Faye was right. Timing is important because once you’re out… you’re out.

 Jennifer de Leon: So, here we are, beginning of January 2018 and she sent me a list of the editors that she was submitting to. She sends out the manuscript with a letter and then she follows up with a phone call that day or the next day. So, I’m like, “Okay. All these people are theoretically reading right now.”

Sarah Enni:  Jen didn’t have to wait long to start getting feedback.

Jennifer de Leon: I was at the gym and I get an email and she’s like, “Stacey Barney is reading and is halfway through and sent a quick email to say that she’s loving what she’s reading.” So I’m like, “Oh my god!” That right there was like, “Holy shit!”

Sarah Enni:  I’m Sarah Enni, author of Tell Me Everything and creator and host of First Draft. And this is Track Changes a special First Draft series covering everything you don’t know you don’t know about publishing. This week, Selling Your Book Part 2, from the point of view of the editor. But first, a bit more from Jen.

So, Faye kept sending Jen updates about which editors were reading her manuscript and what they were saying. And, I mean, let’s just state the obvious. If an editor is updating an agent, that they’re reading a book and loving it, that is a good sign. But it takes more than an editor loving a book for a publisher to green-light an offer.

Jennifer de Leon:  The editors went to share it with their team, or the publisher. They have an acquisitions meeting and people weigh in, marketing, library and sales, education. They can’t be just like, “Great!” They have to show it to their people and then come back.

Sarah Enni:  In the last episode, Seth Fishman of The Gernert Company, and Holly Root of Root Literary, explained auctions. Bidding wars for books. Remember how they said that auctions are rare? Well, Jen is a very special case. Don’t Ask Me Where I’m From got immediate interest from multiple editors. So, Faye let all of the editors know that by a certain date they should submit their best offers. And then…

Jennifer de Leon:  She did something called a double auction. Basically, she had asked them to send their best bids knowing that she was going to take the top three bids and let those people know, “Hey, you’re in the top three. Now, by this date, make your real best offer.”

Sarah Enni:  When editors are competing head-to-head like this, they want to do whatever they can to sway the author and win.  Often, that means more than just money.

Jennifer de Leon:  Some of them put together marketing plans, at that point. They were projecting like, “This is what we’ll do and this, and that.” I didn’t know what was standard, what was not and so Faye walked me through all of that.

Sarah Enni:  Sometimes it means adding a personal touch, like in the case of Caitlyn Dlouhy, the publisher of Caitlyn Dlouhy Books at Simon & Schuster. Who, spoiler alert, ended up being the editor to acquire Don’t Ask Me Where I’m From.

Jennifer de Leon: And then Caitlyn, I remember, she sent a letter to Faye and to me, outside of everything, she just sent a personal letter. She was like, “Getting this book in the hands of one kid who needs it… is everything.” And I remember reading that and being, maybe cause I was newly pregnant, I got super choked up and I’m like, “Oh my god. She gets it!”

Sarah Enni: So Jen’s experience selling Don’t Ask Me Where I’m From is not typical, but I was so happy to talk with Jen for the series she’s seen both extremes. Last week she shared her story of having her first book go on submission to… crickets.  And then there was her second book which went on submission, had offers within days, and went to a double auction. She didn’t let that first bad submission experience keep her from writing and pursuing publication. And it paid off.

In last week’s episode, Seth and Holly broke down the agent’s side of selling a book. But what about the editor’s side? What about these mysterious acquisitions meetings and all the people in-house that an editor has to convince before they even get the chance to put together an offer to buy a book?  We’ll hear all about that, after the break.

I am so thrilled that our presenting sponsor today is Writing in Place, the new project from Nina LaCour that could not have come at a better time. Nina, bestselling and Prince Award winning novelist of We Are Okay, is also the creator of The Slow Novel Lab, a six week writing intensive that is perfect for writers at any stage of their journey to go deeper into their work.  Nina also has one of my favorite writing podcasts ever, Keeping A Notebook. It’s calm, reflective, and always inspiring.

Now, she’s made the perfect spinoff series for all of us trying to stay creative in deeply uncertain times.  Writing in Place is about writing and about home. In each episode, Nina shares personal stories and reflections and shares a writing prompt that you can use to reignite your creative fire if you’re having trouble, or just serve as a peaceful few minutes of the day. Even if you’re listening to this when the pandemic is a distant memory, Nina’s prompts and thoughts on writing are evergreen.  They’re a perfect way to ease into, or out of, a day of creativity.

Listen to Writing in Place in the Keeping a Notebook podcast feed. And to get the photos that go along with each episode, subscribe to Nina’s newsletter @NinaLaCour.com.

Sarah Enni:  Okay, so… finally, behind the scenes! The book sale from the editor’s point of view.

Kate Sullivan:  What makes a submission sparkle for me is a question that’s always very difficult to answer. I know that everyone wants to know what that magical thing is, or what that technical aspect is. But when it comes down to it, an editor is just a reader.  We trust our gut instincts, just like someone who loves books walks into a bookstore and starts to peruse the first few pages, or the flap copy, or whatever. It’s just a feeling in your heart.

Sarah Enni:  That’s Kate Sullivan, Senior Content Development Manager at  New Leaf Literary & Media who previously worked as an editor at various Big Five publishers, including eight years at Little Brown Books for Young Readers, and five years at Delacorte.  She says there are a lot of factors editors have to consider when deciding what manuscripts they may actually want to bid on.

Kate Sullivan: Sometimes it’s not about that wonderful sparkle that I just completely fall head over heels in love with, sometimes it’s that I heard our publisher say that, “We’re short on Christmas books this year and we really need some of those to bulk up the list.” Or, “That they’ve been very successful for us in the past and we could use them.”

Sometimes it’s that I’ve noticed there’s a gap in the market for some particular sort of representation or story. It is as much my job to fall in love and bring new voices to the market, as it is for me to acquire stuff that will help a publisher stay afloat and continue to able to buy new voices.

Sarah Enni:  And editors, they’re busy.

Kate Sullivan:  As an editor, I was expected to be bringing in, or publishing, between nine and twenty new projects every year.  When I was at Delacourte, I was getting somewhere between two hundred and four hundred novel submissions per year.  And I personally was reading between twenty and fifty pages of each and every one of them, often times a lot more.

Sarah Enni:  Remember in the last episode when Seth and Holly talked about how agents painstakingly put together sub lists, the list of editors to submit projects to? That’s because they often only have one shot with a project. And given how overloaded editors are, you gotta make that shot count.

Kate Sullivan:  When you’re in a situation with so much quantity, you really need excuses to sort of pare down your pile. And so a lot of the times things move on in my reading pile because they haven’t turned me off.  Whether it’s a subject I don’t like, a particular voice, a particular political stance, too many typos. There are a lot of reasons that I might walk away from a submission and it’s a lot more rare for someone to not do things that sort of turn me, as a person, off. And oftentimes, I will keep reading as an editor because someone has been careful and concise and proper.

Sarah Enni:  Back in episode two we talked about polishing your manuscript to within an inch of its life before querying agents, well in all the work that you and agent do to get the manuscript in shape to send to editors, you do that polishing all over again. Being careful and considered makes all the difference. This is some tortoise and the hare stuff, guys.

Okay, let’s say an editor has found something they’re interested in, either because they fell in love with it personally, or it fits the publishing niche that they’re looking for. What next? Kate says they have to start the process of getting their coworkers on board. And that process is known as acquisitions.

Kate Sullivan:  So the first step after finding something that I would want to acquire or was interested in pursuing is to get other readers to back me up.

Sarah Enni:  Sometimes that’s an editor having their assistant read for a second opinion, or another editor, a colleague. And sometimes, Kate says, there are very formalized structures put in place. Hurdles that every editor must jump through. Something like having three other editors read the book and give it a thumbs up before that first editor can go to the editorial director and say their interested in offering on that manuscript.

I just want to pause and emphasize that for a second. In some cases, even if you get a rejection letter, upwards of three or four people at a publishing house have read your book.  That’s a little head spinning right? And I can tell you from experience, that agents and editors are readers with minds like steel traps. That means, often if they read your book and liked it – just not enough to buy it – they’ll remember your name if you’re on submission again.  Even years later with something new. It’s important to keep in mind that all stages, this is a long game.

Okay, now back to acquisitions.

Kate Sullivan:  There are three kinds of acquisitions, committees, in my knowledge, my limited knowledge.

Sarah Enni:  First is a committee that’s all editors with no other departments involved.  Then, there’s committees where the entire department is involved. Meaning everyone from an editorial assistant to a production editor, gets the chance to read your manuscript and weigh in. That’s a bit more unusual. The third, and most common type of acquisition committee, consists of the heads of departments at the publishing house getting together.  The publisher, the president, the marketing director, the finance director, the subsidiary rights director, the publicity director, and the creative director.

While all this is going on, your agent is metaphorically looking over the editor’s shoulder waiting for the right time to follow up. And Kate says follow up can be a sensitive thing.

Kate Sullivan:  I gotta be honest, if an agent follows up too soon, and too aggressively, it turns me off immediately.  I try to be pretty aggressive and read all of my submissions within three weeks, or at least start them.  At least start to read all of my submissions within three weeks of getting them.  It’s a job that you take home. It’s a job that you agonize about, because every single thing that I do, without consideration, is a feeling hurt, is a heart broken. It’s a very heavy emotional burden to carry the hopes and dreams of a lot of people on my back.

And so if somebody follows up too early, I want to throw them out the window because I’m like, “Do you know how hard I’m working all ready?” Like, “I can’t move this fast.”

Sarah Enni:  So, while you’re on submission obsessively refreshing your inbox… just keep that in mind. That being said, if your manuscript is kicking up interest somewhere, Kate says that’s something your agent can and absolutely should follow up with ASAP.

Kate Sullivan:  I expect them to fill me in on whether or not they are getting interest elsewhere.  Is it moving to editorial board at a different company? Is somebody putting together an offer? I can’t participate in a competitive situation for a manuscript, if I don’t have all the information.

Sarah Enni: It’s important for agents to be updating editors on that kind of thing because the timing of acquisitions meetings are different at every publisher. Sometimes they’re held every week, sometimes only every three weeks. And sometimes, especially in the case of a hot manuscript that people are bidding on fast, acquisitions meetings can be called on an impromptu basis.  Cause editors and agents, they’re always playing the game.

Kate Sullivan:  There are a couple of routes you can take as an editor. You can do the, “I want this so bad that I am not going to tell anybody anything.” And then come in with a big pre-empt so that everybody is startled. And maybe I just get it automatically because I was quick, because I was aggressive, because I scared all of the other editors off.

Sarah Enni: Remember, we talked about this last week. Pre-empts are fun and exciting, but not all that common.

Kate Sullivan:  Sometimes I will say to an agent, “You know, I’m really interested in this. If it moves forward, please let me know.” You sort of have to weigh things when you get submissions and figure out what the better route is. Because if you tell an agent that you are interested in something, you can be drumming up the competition and you might be driving up prices. So, you have to make that game time decision about how you want to proceed with the agent.

Sarah Enni:  Add this to the list of things to consider when you’re thinking of working with an agent. In this professional negotiation they are representing you. And the way agents work and communicate, can have an impact on your career.

Kate Sullivan:  It does go into my consideration if there’s an agent that I don’t like, or I find to be an emotional minefield. As much as knowing that I’m getting an author who might come with some baggage or extra work, just as I’m considering that with authors, I’m also considering that with agents. If I have an agent who I know is going to be calling me a lot, who’s gonna be abusing me… that’s part of my calculation into how much I love this book.  Is it worth whatever is going to happen in that agent relationship.

Sarah Enni:  Okay, so we know that typically a group of department higher-ups are at acquisitions meetings to discuss the pros and cons of making an offer on your manuscript.

Kate Sullivan:  The idea behind these meetings is that you have expert heads-of-state who can all weigh-in on the financial burden the company is about to take together. 

Sarah Enni:  So, what kind of information is an editor bringing to an acquisitions meeting to help everyone evaluate the potential purchase?

Kate Sullivan:  In general, no matter where you’re at, you have to present some materials to the people who are considering whether or not to approve your offer.  So, one of the things is a P&L, a Profit and Loss Statement, where it’s almost an excel sheet where you can see the financials play out.

Sarah Enni:  Basically, they’re figuring out how much it’ll cost to make the book. From the big stuff, like marketing budget, royalties, and advances. To the stuff you wouldn’t normally be thinking of as the author. Like shipping costs and warehouse fees. The bottom line for the P&L, for the publisher, is are they going to make money off of your book.

Another thing editors have to present, TI sheets which stands for Title Information sheet. That’s like a memo outlining basic info about you and your book.

Kate Sullivan:  And then any other materials that are pertaining to the author, or the content, which might include comparative books, it might include examples of the author’s previous books. It might include examples of the author’s other projects, if they are a celebrity.

Sarah Enni: Okay, as an author, you write a query letter and that’s typically about three paragraphs. Then your agent puts together a cover letter to send to editors, and that’s really more like two paragraphs. Then an editor, who’s interested in bidding on your manuscript, has to write up something to present to their team that’s even shorter than that.

Kate Sullivan:  The first thing that’s going to be headlined at the top of your acquisitions memo is going to be a one line pitch, or keynote.

Sarah Enni:  And this one line pitch? It’s a little different from how your manuscript has been pitched anywhere before this point.

Kate Sullivan: So what’s interesting about the way an agent is going to pitch to an editor, versus the way an editor is going to pitch to their house, is an agent is going to be trying to capture the heart, or the interest, or the intellect of an editor. However, when an editor is trying to get approval for an offer, sometimes they are talking to people who don’t care about the heart of the content. They care about how much money is gonna be made for the company.

So, sometimes that means that we’re pitching in a way that’s like, “Hey, this person has 5 million You Tube followers.” Or, “Hey, we know that there’s a lack in the market because we saw this recent series of articles.” So it can be much more of a broad scope thing trying to sell it in a general sense rather than in a specific literary sense.

Sarah Enni:  Another document the editor puts together for acquisitions, is something called a Position Statement. Again, this document looks at your manuscript more as a product, than a heartbreaking work of staggering genius.

Kate Sullivan:  So this is a signal to sales and marketing about how we’re gonna sell the book. Who are we selling the book to? So, it’s gonna include stuff like age range, the audience in mind, comparative title, deeper themes or markets.

Sarah Enni:  Next up in the acquisition meeting is a discussion around sales points.

Kate Sullivan:  This might also include info like, “We’ve gotten feedback that markets are looking for this.” Like, “Germany wants fantasies. Barnes & Nobel is asking for YA memoir.” Another one might be if this covers a niche that our house, or our imprint, is currently missing. For instance, if you feel like every other house has award bate picture book nonfiction, and we don’t, then we should consider buying this to fill that niche.

Sarah Enni:  You know that advice about branding yourself as an author and building a platform and various other buzzwords?  Well, this is where all that work comes in to play.

Kate Sullivan:  So, another thing sales always likes to hear is if the author has existing fandom. So that might be Chris Colfer came to Little Brown already with legends of fans from his time on Glee.  It might be a book tuber who is now writing fiction and already comes with a huge following. There are a lot of different ways that people can come with an existing fandom but it’s always important to know because that might be sales automatically baked in.

Sarah Enni:  Then there’s if you’re an interesting person in some marketable way outside of platform.

Kate Sullivan:  Then I’ll want to tell my acquisitions committee about marketing or publicity hooks.  So this might be, “This author’s mentor is Nicola Yoon and her social media following is in the tens of thousands.” Or, “He writes for TV. He’s already a teacher and will be great at author events.” So those are benefits that the author already comes with and help us sell the book.

We also want to know about the author’s past successes. Sales, media coverage, successful projects in other arenas which might be film, it could be acting, it could be art. But whatever it is, it’s always good to know that they come with an extra little oomph that can help the sales.

Sarah Enni:  Okay so at this point you’re asking, “What about the actual book? Does anyone care about my precious, precious words?” Yes. Honestly they do. But… they might not be talking about your work the way that you dream about.

Kate Sullivan:  Oftentimes acquisitions memos will include editorial notes. So this is an editor’s way of saying, “I know, I know, I know there’s a problem. I know that your gonna come at me and tell me the middle was slow.” Or, “That character was unconvincing.” Or, “You hated the ending.” So, I’ll include editorial notes to say, “Don’t worry. My plan is to work with the author to fix X, Y, Z.” And how I suggest fixing it.

Doesn’t necessarily stop people from bringing it up at the meeting, but I always try it.

Sarah Enni:  Then there are those pesky downsides. Drawbacks or extra circumstances that need to be addressed. Kate says editors will often identify those potential issues and present a plan to get ahead of them.

Kate Sullivan: Like, “It’s a debut so it’s gonna be a higher marketing budget to establish a new series. The author’s sales track isn’t great. He lives in remote Alaska and will not travel.” There are a lot of different things and can sort of make the selling of a book a little bit more complicated.

Sarah Enni: And, lastly, comparative titles.

Kate Sullivan:  This is a phrase that every editor dreads, I think. And you’re basically saying to other departments who may not be an editorial, “Here’s a book that is already published that is like the book we want to buy today.” So this can give us an idea of what the market is like for what we’re going into. It can give us an example of what the sales might be. Oftentimes, it’ll give us an idea of sales strategy or genre.

And the other thing I have to do is look up the sales numbers for those comparative titles, whether they’re within our own system or on Book Scan.

Sarah Enni:  Side note: Book Scan is a sales data service owned by the NPD Group. They used to be Nielsen, as in the TV tracking people. It records roughly 85% of all hard cover and paperback book sales.  It’s the industry standard calculator for general sales data, even though, as I just said, it is widely understood to not be fully accurate. 

All this information, the one line pitch, positioning statement, sales points, existing fandoms, marketing or publicity hooks, editorial notes, potential downsides, and comparative titles, gets factored into that granddaddy of them all, the Profit and Loss Statement.

Now, the P&L Statement is a business document, but publishing is a bit of a woo-woo industry.

Kate Sullivan:  I’m an editor, I didn’t go to business school. So, when I’m filling out that P&L a lot of times I’m using comparative titles and saying, “I know this quiet literary novel from X sold that many copies, so therefore we can at least do that. But I know that Little Brown does amazing with literary titles, so I’m gonna bump it up a little more.” Or, “I think this one has more of a commercial hook so I’m gonna bump it up a little bit more.” Or whatever. But it is absolutely fuzzy math.

Sarah Enni: This is all quite a lot of work that an editor is doing for a book that they have not yet purchased.

Kate Sullivan: Correct. So this is already a lot of work to be doing before we even walk into the acquisitions committee meeting.

Sarah Enni: Plus, they’re doing multiple P&L’s. Updating the numbers based on research and feedback that they get from other departments.  That’s all on top of editing and advocating for books that they, you know, already bought. So, what happens if the acquisition meeting goes well and an editor gets the green-light to put together an offer?

Kate Sullivan:  Personally as an editor, I would sit down at my desk and call the agent with an offer. Inevitably they have to play it cool, “Thank you so much. I appreciate it. I know this was a lot of work. I’ll talk to my author and get back to you.”

Sarah Enni:  At this point you’ll get the chance to get on the phone with an editor. And much like when you talk to a potential literary agent for the first time, it’s helpful to get on the phone call with a few questions. Ask about what revisions the editor is thinking of to see if your artistic visions align. You can also ask what plans the publishing house has for marketing and publicizing your work. What do they see as the target audience for the book and how do they plan on reaching those readers?

Editor enthusiasm is key to a book’s success. We’ll talk more about that in a future episode. But on the call you can also try to get a sense of whether there’s other cheerleaders at the publishing house for your book. Do other team members, besides the offering editor, jump on the call? Is it clear that the rest of your team has read the book and are excited about it? And, as ever, it’s all about vibe. Do you like this person? Do you like them as much as they like your book?

At this stage, your agent and the editor are gonna go back and forth on the fundamentals of the contract. Things like the amount of the advance, the payout schedule, the book’s release date, the option clause, and a few big sub rights. Like foreign rights, audio rights, film and TV.

Kate Sullivan:  There’s a little bit of tinkering even in the scenario where there’s not competition from other houses. Sometimes I think publishers will stay firm at the original offer if they know there’s no competition. I mean, it’s still a capitalist society and that’s how things work. But a lot more times, it’ll be a fair and kind negotiation where the editor knows that the author has to make a living, and we’re trying to find a way that the publisher, me, can publish the book without taking advantage. You never want to start out a relationship on the feeling of taking advantage of somebody. But you also represent the company and I am essentially offering somebody else’s money, so I can’t always give on things.

Sarah Enni:  Once your editor and agent come to an agreement on the fundamentals of the contract, the editor puts together what’s called a deal memo which outlines the negotiated terms. You take a look at the deal memo and if it looks good to you, then you accept! Woo-hoo! That’s it! Right? Pop the champagne. Yes. Yes to champagne, or a seltzer and lime, or any celebratory beverage of your choosing.

You have chosen an editor. But…the deal memo is not your contract. The contract is not yet final. Your editor passes the deal memo off to contract professionals at the publisher, who then hash out the more nitty-gritty details with your agent and come up with what will be your book contract. That negotiating process can take weeks.

In the meantime, your editor moves on to re-reading your book and writing an editorial letter.

And…what about you? Well, you just sort of hang out. Be warned. After all the hustle and bustle and excitement and phone calls and emails and frenetic activity of selling a book… once you finally agree and have a congratulations call with your agent, and talk to your editor, you are then going to lapse into a period of total silence.

This could last a couple weeks, or a couple months. Maybe even longer. And it is normal. Okay, months isn’t so normal, maybe be on the phone with your agent about that. But that period of silence is normal.

Kate Sullivan:  Nobody gets cancelled in between that first deal and the editorial letter. It just doesn’t happen. I had to do so much gosh darn paperwork to make this thing happen, I am not cancelling because I suddenly changed my mind. I’m just not. It’s not worth it to me. 95% of new debut authors who have just been signed, are going to get a long period of silence. And that is okay. I promise you won’t be cancelled.  Just sit back, write your next book with the knowledge that you have a contract!

Sarah Enni: Let me say that again for those in the back. What you should be doing during that time of silence is writing the next book.

So now you have a sense of what the process of selling a book looks like. But there’s some really key details that we didn’t flush out fully. Advances and contracts.

Joanna Volpe: You go into this hoping it works out. That it’s a happy marriage. But you negotiate the contract for the divorce, the potential divorce, right? And so that’s what it’s there for.

Sarah Enni:  That’s next time, on Track Changes.

MORE INFORMATION:

You can follow Kate Sullivan @NewLeafLiterary.com and find Jennifer de Leon @jenniferdeloenauthor.com.  You can follow me @SarahEnni on Twitter, Instagram and everywhere. Follow @FirstDraftPod on Twitter and Instagram. And head to FirstDraftPod.com/TrackChanges for more information and updates on Track Changes.

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Track Changes is produced by me, Sarah Enni and Hayley Hershman. Zan Romanoff is our story editor. The theme music is by Dan Baily and the logo was designed by Collin Keith.